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Evola's Sunglasses's avatar

This needs to be shared far and wide.

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TheArtfulSkeptic's avatar

I think you've misunderstood your own studies that you've linked because you seem to be arguing that studies that attribute the children of immigrants to natives as being some kind of flaw in any study. In fact, most of the studies that you seem to provide for the UK only attribute the children of immigrants to native workers when they become adults i.e. the time period when they are the most beneficial. This is the static analysis that you seem to be heavily relying upon for any conclusion.

Take your Oxford Economics paper as well as the paper you've provided by Dustmann & Frattini. Their static analysis attributes the costs of raising an immigrant's child to adulthood but then assign the benefits of being a worker to the native themselves. This will naturally over-estimate costs pretty significantly which is why dynamic analysis aims to control for this. Even Dustmann & Frattini themselves acknowledge this massive flaw in their own study.

>The data indicates that, overall, all non-white ethnic groups were net beneficiaries in terms of benefits received and taxes paid. Specifically, Black ethnic groups received the highest amount in benefits (£15,500) and paid the least amount in taxes (£9,100), which likely reflects the relatively lower employment rates among these ethnic groups.

That's not true at all. The largest ethnic minority group in the UK ('Asian') paid around £500 according to the ONS. But this fundamentally misunderstands what this statistic actually means - if you have children for example and send them to school, they will be costs on the household ('benefits-in-kind'). All this is going to be heavily influenced by the fact that ethnic minorities are younger so they tend to have young children which is going to be heavily penalized in any kind of 'net payments' benefit. The ONS also doesn't include things like the state pension which will be drawn by disproportionately white adults in this figure for net costs which is actually a massive cost and not something that has been paid for.

The paper you linked by Dustmann & Frattini doesn't even say that foreign labour takes up jobs from native workers. This is something you seem to have concocted - they in fact argue the opposite on page 17. They point out that the number of jobs has grown greater than the number of immigrants. I'm not even sure where you got this absurd statistic involving 23 native workers from. I've quoted the relevant paragraph below - they're making the opposite case than you think here.

>Rather, the numbers suggest that employment has increased even more than population

growth through immigration: between 1995 and 2011, the total adult UK population (including immigrants) increased by 11.1% and the total working age (16–65) population increased by 10.2%, while the total number of jobs increased by 12.8%

It feels like you've not properly understood the studies you've linked either because you seem to have read them rather superficially. Because to argue that treating the children of immigrants as natives as misleading in any paper shows you've not really understood how the static analysis works. It's quite the opposite because otherwise, any static analysis would assign the benefits of immigrants being workers while assigning the costs to natives.

I'm from the UK so I won't comment on other countries but we should never be using studies from other countries to somehow argue something about the UK. This violates the basic principle of ceteris paribus. I wouldn't even normally comment on something like this but the fact that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the papers you've linked, what the static analysis actually does, and then you've written quite bold pieces that aren't supported by the papers made me a little annoyed.

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